tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post8461029817939118395..comments2023-08-08T00:37:45.098-07:00Comments on A Philosophy Job Market Blog: In other depressing newsPseudonymous Grad Studenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comBlogger88125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-52192273127296861802008-11-17T11:24:00.000-08:002008-11-17T11:24:00.000-08:00I'll weigh in on two issues:1) It can be very impo...I'll weigh in on two issues:<BR/><BR/>1) It can be very important to meet deadlines, but I bet it varies dramatically from search to search. Last year I recevied an interview call for one position BEFORE their stated application deadline. It seems unlikely that late (or even barely on time) applications were given an equal examination. In other words, how important the deadline is depends in part on when the SC starts looking at applications.<BR/><BR/>2) Last year I applied to about 100 positions. I applied to every job I remotely qualified for except: two year colleges, places with such a high cost of living that I couldn't imagine living there, or such competitive jobs that I didn't believe I had a 'snowball's chance' of getting the job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-28948649074826072562008-11-15T20:08:00.000-08:002008-11-15T20:08:00.000-08:00I am curious: do you see enough of this to rule ou...<I>I am curious: do you see enough of this to rule out the obvious "innocent" explanations (invoking the small number of journals, the fact that advisees tend to work in the same area as advisors, etc.)? We can expect a certain degree of bias, here, obviously -- the question is whether there is more than the inevitable minimum.</I><BR/><BR/>There was some discussion of this in connection with Phil Perspectives. That's not the example I had in mind. There's been some discussion of this obviously in connection with gender issues. That's important, but also not what I have in mind. <BR/><BR/>What I've noticed seems not that innocent. It seems like a striking number of people from a certain grad program find a surprisingly high percentage of their pubs in the same place. Moreover, that journal has a surprisingly high number of pubs from that people that went through that program. I don't want to name names, I'm just curious if others have ever entertained the possibility and/or noticed this sort of thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-1904984490264927452008-11-15T14:12:00.000-08:002008-11-15T14:12:00.000-08:00wtf wrote:"As someone who has been on several sear...wtf wrote:<BR/><BR/>"As someone who has been on several search committees let me say this: I don't give one shit what courses you have took in grad school."<BR/><BR/>There's something about the combination of haughty condescension and ungrammaticality here that warms my heart.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-50949526400175878842008-11-14T14:44:00.000-08:002008-11-14T14:44:00.000-08:00Apply everywhere that meets the following two cond...Apply everywhere that meets the following two conditions:<BR/><BR/>(1) there's a possibility you'd rather take a job there than continue grad school (or get a job in the private sector).<BR/><BR/>(2) there's a possibility you meet their qualifications, very broadly construed.<BR/><BR/>For some people, this will only be 15 jobs. For some it will be 120. It's fine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-83990626116892640292008-11-14T13:22:00.000-08:002008-11-14T13:22:00.000-08:00Thanks to those who responded with the numbers of ...Thanks to those who responded with the numbers of jobs you are applying for.<BR/><BR/>To those of you who applied for a large amount of jobs and got interviews, were most of them jobs that asked for an AOS or AOC that was pretty close to your dissertation topic, were they mostly open positions, or was it seemingly random?<BR/><BR/>I can understand that those of you who do both ethics and applied ethics are going to have a much larger pool of jobs to choose from. The person who wrote their dissertation on, say, Gricean implicature and aesthetics (completely random example, by the way; I know of no one who has done this) is going to have a much smaller pool of jobs for which to apply, or at least I would presume that this would be the case (hypothetically, let's say that they have only taught a couple Intro and maybe a baby logic course). Those who do work in philosophy and one of the sciences have fewer traditional TT choices, but more fellowship opportunities, it seems. And then there is the one Husserl job, which I am sure continentals all over the U.S. are salivating over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-64749967126157705982008-11-14T13:20:00.000-08:002008-11-14T13:20:00.000-08:00For hiring purposes, you are the first page of you...For hiring purposes, you are the first page of your CV. If a committee must slog through 10 pages to find a reason to interview you, then don't expect a phone call. Committees want to know where you got your degree, AOS/AOC, and publications. I don't care if you have a 50 page behemoth CV, if enough folks have first pages that eat your first page for breakfast, then don't expect a phone call. Does anyone really think every line of every person's CV gets read? The only way a committee member is making it to your 10th page is if your 1st page gets you into the top 30-40.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-18614561737481002242008-11-14T13:06:00.000-08:002008-11-14T13:06:00.000-08:0012:22,When you look back at where you got your int...12:22,<BR/><BR/>When you look back at where you got your interviews and your offers, were they places where you thought you might have a good shot before you applied or were they surprises. <BR/><BR/>I am trying to gage whether applying to 120 places is worth it. Or whether applying to places that are more realistic opportunities would produce the same or similar outcome.Natehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09053975242033595947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-75926509247817537462008-11-14T12:22:00.000-08:002008-11-14T12:22:00.000-08:00I applied to over 120 jobs last year. Yield: 12 o...I applied to over 120 jobs last year. Yield: 12 off-campus interviews; 10 campus interviews; 4 offers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-82250053238344043562008-11-14T10:07:00.000-08:002008-11-14T10:07:00.000-08:00"On a different note, does anyone else around here..."On a different note, does anyone else around here get paranoid about the review process? Here's a few worries I've had. First, I've noticed an uptick in people googling papers I have under review."<BR/><BR/>"Blind" refereeing certainly isn't really blind -- I doubt that it was ever very close to blind, but by now, at any rate, it is at best slightly near-sighted.<BR/><BR/>"Second, I've noticed that an awfully high number of people are publishing work in journals edited by professors that they did graduate work with."<BR/><BR/>I am curious: do you see enough of this to rule out the obvious "innocent" explanations (invoking the small number of journals, the fact that advisees tend to work in the same area as advisors, etc.)? We can expect a certain degree of bias, here, obviously -- the question is whether there is more than the inevitable minimum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-50906226617616014852008-11-14T09:22:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:22:00.000-08:00Response to Anon 1:39:I am sending about 55 aps. S...Response to Anon 1:39:<BR/><BR/>I am sending about 55 aps. Some of those are slightly stretchy, though really very few. But I have also written things in a few sub-levels of philosophy and am pretty indiscriminate about location--so, for example, the number includes a few jobs in asia and europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-8120730994018265382008-11-14T08:09:00.000-08:002008-11-14T08:09:00.000-08:00To Anon (1:39)I went out with an AOS in ethics and...To Anon (1:39)<BR/><BR/>I went out with an AOS in ethics and political philosophy last year and sent out rouhgly 90 total apps (probably 70 out of the October JFP). I snagged two TT on-campus interviews and one offer.<BR/><BR/>Don't try to over-predict what a SC is looking for. If your qualifications match without a gross stretch then send the app. My experience taught me that you should never try to guess where your app will hit in a good way. I didn't get any love from places where I thought I had a really good shot with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-5504814165447858492008-11-14T08:04:00.000-08:002008-11-14T08:04:00.000-08:00Anon 1:39 -I get the feeling that some people appl...Anon 1:39 -<BR/><BR/>I get the feeling that some people apply for jobs when they don't meet the AOS and/or AOC or when the job is at a Leiter top 5 school and they come from a Leiter 50ish school. <BR/><BR/>In the past, I applied for way too many jobs. This year, I am applying for about 35. There are some jobs that I won't apply for because of location (sorry losers, I have family to consider). If I applied for those, I might have 45 applications at the most.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-86617230933398734062008-11-14T07:14:00.000-08:002008-11-14T07:14:00.000-08:00Anon 1:39,You really only need to apply for one jo...Anon 1:39,<BR/><BR/>You really only need to apply for one job, if it's the right one. But it's hard to know which one that will be. I've got about 25 out now myself, for what it's worth.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-33184697076110963072008-11-13T20:10:00.000-08:002008-11-13T20:10:00.000-08:00my two-cents:anon 9:52: no way I would ever throw...my two-cents:<BR/><BR/>anon 9:52: no way I would ever throw out an application on account of a typo; even an embarrassing one. That seems crazy to me. I wouldn't worry about it all. <BR/><BR/>anon 10:54: you overstate your case. A candidate with a 2-3 page CV is not necessarily doing anything wrong. C'mon. Haven't we established that there is a wide range of reasonable differences in CV length here? Jesus.<BR/><BR/>anon 5:43: We expect that some applications will come in late. It barely registers and once the application is filed, none of us will ever remember when the materials came in. We're only interested in finding the strongest candidates. Don't worry; just send in those applications.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-40677282116321787652008-11-13T19:58:00.000-08:002008-11-13T19:58:00.000-08:00As someone who has been on several search committe...As someone who has been on several search committees let me say this: I don't give one shit what courses you have took in grad school. Seriously: I don't care if you took ethics with Scanlon or metaphysics with Williamson. If you have taught a class on a certain area, then list it as an AOC. If you you specialize in an area, then list it as an AOS. Everything else: fuck it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-36036453762151568532008-11-13T19:47:00.000-08:002008-11-13T19:47:00.000-08:00Anon 1:39 - I have about 50 or 60 applications out...Anon 1:39 - I have about 50 or 60 applications out so far, but my AOS is normative ethics and bioethics, which as many have said generally nets the greatest number of applications. And, of course, the greatest number of competitors for those spots.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-44549491391332723382008-11-13T17:43:00.000-08:002008-11-13T17:43:00.000-08:00I can't believe I'm gonna ask this, but...Arriving...I can't believe I'm gonna ask this, but...<BR/><BR/>Arriving 1 or 2 days (max!) past the deadline isn't going to sink my application, is it? I know past/present/future SC members on here won't want to admit it for fear of widespread laxness (sp?). But seriously Priority mail was like 1/3 the price of Express mail ($18.00!!!). <BR/><BR/>I promise not to make a habit of it, but you think I'll be OK?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-5538818896013189472008-11-13T17:21:00.000-08:002008-11-13T17:21:00.000-08:00yo 6:02:how old are you? like 45? that's the only ...yo 6:02:<BR/><BR/>how old are you? like 45? that's the only way I could conceive of anyone having that many poster presentations!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-27970101482061420042008-11-13T13:39:00.000-08:002008-11-13T13:39:00.000-08:00I do not know if anyone will honestly answer this ...I do not know if anyone will honestly answer this question, even though we have anonymity, but how many jobs is each person applying for? <BR/><BR/>The reason I ask is that I have heard such large numbers from people (60-100!) that I simply cannot buy that people spend that much time or money applying to jobs that they are most likely completely unsuited for and have no chances of getting an interview. So, I am curious about this.<BR/><BR/>After both JFPs, I have 25 applications out, and I would say that at least 1/2 of those are a stretch in terms of specialization.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-76181085550037307522008-11-13T11:21:00.000-08:002008-11-13T11:21:00.000-08:00Anon 12:52 here --Thanks to all for the advice abo...Anon 12:52 here --<BR/>Thanks to all for the advice about the short paper. That puts my mind at ease. (At least about this one thing.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-20734595418544443502008-11-13T10:59:00.000-08:002008-11-13T10:59:00.000-08:00I see, here are two things that account for the le...I see, here are two things that account for the length difference:<BR/><BR/>--some people are sending the list of courses taken and the dissertation summary separately, some are counting it as part of the CV. <BR/><BR/>--some people have been out of grad school a few years.<BR/><BR/>If you are not including that stuff, and if you are just coming out of grad school, of course it would be crazy to have more than 3 pages; what would you put on them?!<BR/><BR/>But if you've been teaching for awhile, and are including some of that stuff, it's not crazy to have 7 pages, like anon 6:02 (although to be honest, 6:02, I'm not sure I'd list the poster presentations, unless perhaps you're in a cognate science field and those are important/hard to get in that field?).<BR/><BR/><BR/>And to add to the advice about the 14 page writing sample: I would love it if the writing sample was that short. (I'm a professor, but not a search committee member this year.) Also keep in mind that committees sometimes ask you to send more work, so if they want to see more, they can ask (or, as already advised, you can include another paper, although if you think other papers are really not as good, I probably wouldn't -- you wouldn't want them to think the awesome short paper was a fluke.)<BR/><BR/>And to the guy/girl with 15,000 words -- perhaps you can cut out some specific arguments and footnote that you deal with those in your dissertation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-22649940431898454732008-11-13T10:24:00.000-08:002008-11-13T10:24:00.000-08:00I'm at a top 5 dept, and if you've only got a 2-3 ...I'm at a top 5 dept, and if you've only got a 2-3 pge CV you are doing something wrong. <BR/><BR/>mine includes the pubs, refereed and nonrefereed, conferences (only one grad, and it was an important one), honors and awards (that takes up space), and... professional service. Given that this is one of the three legs on which we are supposedly evaluated as professors, it makes sense to put it on the CV. I include here the names of journals for which I've refereed, plus some other stuff. And teaching experience, which I've got a decent amount of.<BR/><BR/>then, with a list of references, courses taken, diss abstract, and future research statement, I was happy to come in at 9 pages and not longer. If you only have two pages plus diss abstract, you must have next to no conferences or pubs or fellowships to put down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-6308896767293622122008-11-13T10:10:00.000-08:002008-11-13T10:10:00.000-08:00Hey Jerkface, by "1 Book" published, do you mean y...Hey Jerkface, by "1 Book" published, do you mean your CV, or is that a separate publication?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-78449726769303503162008-11-13T09:52:00.000-08:002008-11-13T09:52:00.000-08:00Speaking of CVs and such. I just found a typo in o...Speaking of CVs and such. I just found a typo in one of my supporting "statements". It has already gone out to a number of places. I read the document a number of times and I had others read it, but no one caught the typo...until now. <BR/><BR/>So I am wondering if any SC members would like to chime in on whether applications get tossed due to such mistakes. <BR/><BR/>Does it matter where the typo is found? For example, I imagine that a typo in a cover letter, CV or first pages of a writing sample would be worse than a typo in a supporting document.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-60587390328579735832008-11-13T08:54:00.000-08:002008-11-13T08:54:00.000-08:00Word, beeacth.bitch fail.<I>Word, beeacth.</I><BR/><BR/>bitch fail.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com