tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post545917677795693567..comments2023-08-08T00:37:45.098-07:00Comments on A Philosophy Job Market Blog: Would Anyone Tell Me If I Was Getting Stupider?Pseudonymous Grad Studenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-62680533542757949262008-01-23T12:24:00.000-08:002008-01-23T12:24:00.000-08:0012:12,I don't know what's happening.12:12,<BR/><BR/>I don't know what's happening.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-33668826796013376472008-01-23T12:12:00.000-08:002008-01-23T12:12:00.000-08:009:36: I was responding to the comment that it's no...9:36: I was responding to the comment that it's not the "back" that's problematic in the expression "giving back". That suggests that there's something inappropriate about saying that we should give back to Native Americans but not because it's giving <I>back</I>. The only other option I can think of is that the giving itself is somehow supposed to be problematic.<BR/><BR/>I don't know if that comment was yours, but it doesn't appear in your narrative. So maybe you're taking me to be responding to you when I'm not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-64676405120819430222008-01-23T09:36:00.000-08:002008-01-23T09:36:00.000-08:00Anon 6:20,Here's what happened. A bunch of people ...Anon 6:20,<BR/><BR/>Here's what happened. A bunch of people were shitting on Fort Lewis. Somebody says, <I>well, it was started as a college for native americans. Teaching there wouldn't be so bad; you'd be giving something back.</I><BR/><BR/>Then somebody else says, <I>oh, man, you can't say "giving back"--that's implies that there is a debt.</I> Seems to me to be suggesting that there's no debt, so you can't give <I>back</I>. <BR/><BR/>Then I else say, <I>It's not obvious that there's no debt. Read</I> Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee. <I>there's something like a debt in there someplace.</I><BR/><BR/>Then you say, "I suppose you think we should continue taking instead of giving back?" This seems incoherent, given what I took to be the thread of the earlier conversation. I admit it, I could be brain damaged, I but I intended to express something along the lines of, <I>you can give back, because we did a lot of taking.</I> What did you mean to express?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-9868467036322376502008-01-23T06:20:00.000-08:002008-01-23T06:20:00.000-08:00Right, it must be the giving that's the problem. I...Right, it must be the giving that's the problem. I suppose you think we should continue taking instead of giving back?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-13753005202852461042008-01-21T20:14:00.000-08:002008-01-21T20:14:00.000-08:00Anon 5:00,Maybe you forgot that the United States ...Anon 5:00,<BR/><BR/>Maybe you forgot that the United States fucked the Native Americans sideways over the course of 150 years. (Before that, of course, England and Spain doing it). I don't think "back" is the problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-54726889410468691292008-01-21T17:08:00.000-08:002008-01-21T17:08:00.000-08:00Maybe it doesn't make much sense to complain about...Maybe it doesn't make much sense to complain about careerism on a blog dedicated to helping people with their academic careers, but I'd still suggest that a career that isn't *careerist* will be more fulfilling than a career that is. All some of us want is to be able to support our families by teaching, thinking, and publishing, and the snobbishness displayed by some of those here is depressing, as is the fact that the market (with all its obvious irrationalities) encourages these folks think they've earned that snobishness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-12163452244943444492008-01-21T17:00:00.000-08:002008-01-21T17:00:00.000-08:00Anon 10:34 is obviously wrong: "Giving back" -- n...Anon 10:34 is obviously wrong: "Giving back" -- ntoice the word "back" -- implies paying off a debt one has incurred (which means acknowledging that one does owe such a debt), not giving something out of some grand sense of largesse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-62940222353882013062008-01-21T14:03:00.000-08:002008-01-21T14:03:00.000-08:00Obviously, there are a lot of levels at work here....Obviously, there are a lot of levels at work here. And it's important to avoid the condescending <I>Finding Forrester</I> racism. <BR/><BR/>But I'll say this. Mrs. Zero adjuncts at two schools. One is a local CC with a lot of poor people and minorities. The other is a lily-white private school. The CC is by far the more rewarding, and the students there are actually better. They try harder and there's less academic dishonesty. The students at the CC are far more likely to recognize the value of an education. <BR/><BR/>Sorry for being a bonehead.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-85120273840370875372008-01-21T13:34:00.000-08:002008-01-21T13:34:00.000-08:00I'm wondering how many people talking down about F...I'm wondering how many people talking down about Fort Lewis would prefer adjuncting at two institutions, each half-time and neither offering health insurance, each paying maybe $2000 per course. Because that's going to be the alternative to some who interviewed at Fort Lewis but didn't get a campus interview if they don't end up with anything in the February market. I know someone who is adjuncting in two positions like that because he gave up on the job market after trying for five years and not getting any interviews. He would have been happy to land a job like Fort Lewis.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-32080793549475618522008-01-21T10:34:00.000-08:002008-01-21T10:34:00.000-08:00Mr Zero:I think you missed the punchline: it was "...Mr Zero:<BR/><BR/>I think you missed the punchline: it was "I'm sure they can't wait for me to arrive!!!!!"<BR/><BR/>I think the line about "giving back" is the vaguely racist one--it implies that one is doing charity work when one teaches minorities for pay.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-22147933601668913542008-01-21T10:13:00.000-08:002008-01-21T10:13:00.000-08:00How about this: The careerists can have all the j...How about this: The careerists can have all the jobs at Rutgers, Princeton, NYU, etc., if they'll just leave us nature-lovers the jobs they think they're too good for anyway!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-23687827341538273302008-01-21T00:44:00.000-08:002008-01-21T00:44:00.000-08:00Mr. Zero,I was being facetious. I think you should...Mr. Zero,<BR/><BR/>I was being facetious. I think you should direct your need for explanation to the passage quoted. Good day.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-89778623667878314882008-01-20T21:08:00.000-08:002008-01-20T21:08:00.000-08:00"A person could do a lot worse than spending his/h..."A person could do a lot worse than spending his/her career teaching at a school like Fort Lewis"<BR/><BR/>I doubt itAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-3775221178491821882008-01-20T20:57:00.000-08:002008-01-20T20:57:00.000-08:00I take it that Quine/Carnap meant to suggest that ...I take it that Quine/Carnap meant to suggest that it was arrogant to think that a non-native American could have anything to "give back" to a Native American. But that's ignorant too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-56022961811813942212008-01-20T19:56:00.000-08:002008-01-20T19:56:00.000-08:00DearCarnap/Quine,Would you mind elaborating on you...DearCarnap/Quine,<BR/><BR/>Would you mind elaborating on your comment? I'm not sure what you mean, but there's a pretty natural reading according to which you're kind of a racist. I don't want to just <I>assume</I> you're a racist, or anything, but it's hard to see how your comment is not racism. <BR/><BR/>A person could do a lot worse than spending his/her career teaching at a school like Fort Lewis, Morehouse, Howard, or whatever. So, what's the problem?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-11831229178192316572008-01-20T12:59:00.000-08:002008-01-20T12:59:00.000-08:00"The university was started for Native American st..."The university was started for Native American students, and still has one of the highest percentage of any school, so you get to give back to a group who deserves it." <BR/><BR/><BR/>Ahhh, I love to give back to Native Americans. It would also be exciting to give back to blacks (should i teach at Morehouse to do that?), women (perhaps Wellesley?), and the hearing impaired (Gallaudet?). It warms my hear to give back. I'm sure they can't wait for me to arrive!!!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-51012365424788363792008-01-20T08:16:00.000-08:002008-01-20T08:16:00.000-08:00"I'd rather be at a university run by dumb idealis..."I'd rather be at a university run by dumb idealists than sharp "realists," running the university of the business model"<BR/><BR/>This twice about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-43058954625177099342008-01-19T18:19:00.000-08:002008-01-19T18:19:00.000-08:00I'd rather be at a university run by dumb idealist...I'd rather be at a university run by dumb idealists than sharp "realists," running the university of the business model...<BR/><BR/>Anyone who doesn't feel the appeal of "wide open spaces" won't dig Fort Lewis, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-71140448107025992852008-01-19T11:46:00.000-08:002008-01-19T11:46:00.000-08:00Thank goodness the Fort Lewis text wasn't written ...Thank goodness the Fort Lewis text wasn't written by a department member, and my sympathy and apologies to the poor interviewing faculty member from there, if she's reading. All the same ... too bad that if we are going to have a college designed to serve Native American students - a most worthy goal - that we couldn't succeed in making it so that it's run by non-idiots with basic grammatical skills.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-73606069129022589232008-01-19T10:50:00.000-08:002008-01-19T10:50:00.000-08:00Durango and Southwest Colorado is the best place t...Durango and Southwest Colorado is the best place to attend college. Our open space lends itself to open minds."<BR/><BR/>Oh, yes indeed!<BR/><BR/>In fairness, though, the account of the curriculum (which I assume was written by one of the philosophy faculty) was completely different in style and tone than the above-quoted nonsense, and was perfectly normal. <BR/><BR/>On the subject of professional suicide, I know of one low-ranked <BR/>R1 department with a graduate program that over the course of almost 20 years failed to retain any junior faculty, with some choosing to leave the profession rather than stay there. Now *that's* grim...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-28710254319555694692008-01-19T10:18:00.000-08:002008-01-19T10:18:00.000-08:00Every University has a screwed up administration, ...Every University has a screwed up administration, from what I can tell. And I wouldn't look down my nose at Fort Lewis. First, it's in one of the most beautiful places in the country (Durango, CO); for those philosophers who love the outdoors it doesn't get much better than this. The university was started for Native American students, and still has one of the highest percentage of any school, so you get to give back to a group who deserves it. But, yeah, if your goal is a job at Rutgers, Princeton, or whatever, this isn't the way to go (but you know that already!). Still, there's a philosophical question a lot of us have to face: What do you want more out of life: the instant respect of the profession at large or a beautiful place to spend you days? (I wonder how many places there are where you can find both?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-6183160514931281762008-01-19T08:53:00.000-08:002008-01-19T08:53:00.000-08:00To be fair to Fort Lewis' philosophy department, t...To be fair to Fort Lewis' philosophy department, they didn't write that miserable statement quoted by tenured philosophy girl. The person who interviewed me at the APA was mortified to find it online a week before the interviews. The person said that someone in HR wrote it, and that's definitely not how they see themselves at FLC.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-16222465705828523812008-01-19T08:10:00.000-08:002008-01-19T08:10:00.000-08:00Tee-hee-hee - I know nothing about Fort Lewis Coll...Tee-hee-hee - I know nothing about Fort Lewis College and had never heard of it until this morning. I looked it up after the last comments because ... well, I am procrastinating big time this week. This is from their philosophy department's home page statement:<BR/><BR/>"Most importantly, philosophy will carve a mark on your liberal education. Fort Lewis is the leading liberal arts college. We're like a specialty shop for philosophy. So why go to a large university when you have the specialists here."<BR/><BR/>This is hilarious. I hope whoever wrote this has trouble sleeping at night. Someone needs a lesson in definite descriptions, truth-in-advertising, and punctuation. And what exactly is it to 'carve a mark on your liberal education'? Is that like when my dog peed on my teaching notes the other day?<BR/><BR/>Anyone feeling bad about not being called back by this place should go read the rest of the statement, which is almost as funny as the part I pasted here. (For instance, if you go there you will apparently be trained in how to "understand conclusions" - but not premises, I guess.)<BR/><BR/>By the way, in other matters, no one cares what you ask the dean. Just sit there and don't be manifestly intolerable or crazy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-19442096950657990022008-01-19T08:00:00.000-08:002008-01-19T08:00:00.000-08:00"If the right candidate comes along ; things can h..."If the right candidate comes along ; things can happen very fast ; I’ve seen a job offer made within 24 hrs after a candidate flies home – all it takes is a phone call to the Dean and an email to the provost."<BR/><BR/>I can beat this! I *received* a job offer 2/3 of the way through an on-campus interview!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-87917205267784361042008-01-19T07:30:00.000-08:002008-01-19T07:30:00.000-08:00can you please elaborate re fort lewis and profess...can you please elaborate re fort lewis and professional suicide?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com