tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post2070819461571192963..comments2023-08-08T00:37:45.098-07:00Comments on A Philosophy Job Market Blog: Who will kill the fattened calf?Pseudonymous Grad Studenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-42424151281949114472008-01-02T08:51:00.000-08:002008-01-02T08:51:00.000-08:00The clear visual demarcation between job applicant...<I>The clear visual demarcation between job applicants and all the rest highlights the former's position of weakness and inferiority in a really nasty way.</I> <BR/><BR/>No, it doesn't. Although it makes our position of "inferiority" sort of clear, it does not do it in a really nasty way. If you had to wear an armband or a sandwich sign so people would know to spit at you, or if you had to perform sexual favors in exchange for employment, that would be <I>really nasty</I>. Being forced to dress in the costume of a professional person who is seeking professional employment is not nasty at all. <BR/><BR/>Get over it. Seriously. It's as though having to wear a suit (or at least a pair of trousers and a sport coat) is the worst thing that's ever happened to you people. What the fuck?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-77397849768436231422008-01-01T22:09:00.000-08:002008-01-01T22:09:00.000-08:00Jesse Prinz's last comment touches on (though does...Jesse Prinz's last comment touches on (though doesn't make explicit enough) the really annoying thing about the dress code -- namely, the fact that only interviewees (but not interviewers) are expected to follow it. The clear visual demarcation between job applicants and all the rest highlights the former's position of weakness and inferiority in a really nasty way.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07879320161891826504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-6529803868628988242007-12-31T19:20:00.000-08:002007-12-31T19:20:00.000-08:00Thanks, Alvy. I've long been a big fan of yours. ...Thanks, Alvy. I've long been a big fan of yours. -JesseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-25292718416166496142007-12-31T17:27:00.000-08:002007-12-31T17:27:00.000-08:00Jesse: Awesome Marshall Mcluhan moment!Jesse: Awesome Marshall Mcluhan moment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-34078034018280140612007-12-31T16:10:00.000-08:002007-12-31T16:10:00.000-08:00I think anonymous#n makes an excellent point (suit...I think anonymous#n makes an excellent point (suits etc. diminish stress), though it may be a bit harder for women, for whom the formula remains more open-ended. One disturbing thing about suits is they mark out candidates as such, and that creates a visual demarcation between those who have jobs they are happy with and those who are looking. One improvement would be to have those conducting interviews follow the same dress code as those being interviewed. That thought give me more pause about my hair color than the alleged fashion faux pas. -JesseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-62072408327929845332007-12-31T16:01:00.000-08:002007-12-31T16:01:00.000-08:00Hi, Jerry. Sorry if I've irritated you. I suspec...Hi, Jerry. Sorry if I've irritated you. I suspect we largely agree about how the mind works, yet, curiously, you call your empiricism "rationalism." Can't we all just get along? -JesseAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-62223505837304651432007-12-31T15:52:00.000-08:002007-12-31T15:52:00.000-08:00Re Jesse Prinz's question:I don't know if I'm in a...Re Jesse Prinz's question:<BR/><BR/>I don't know if I'm in a minority here, but I would find it much more stressful if there *weren't* an expectation that job candidates wear suits (or something close to it). Worrying about what tie to wear or whether my shoes are scuffed is peanuts compared to worrying about what overall *style* would best serve my interests (and what specific items would best exemplify that style).<BR/><BR/>Sure, it would be nice if we weren't judged at all on how we dress, but that's not going to happen. I fear that being told to dress as we would "in the classroom" would just add so much more anxiety and second-guessing, as we worry what image to project. Suits level the sartorial playing field (especially since nobody seems to earn points for wearing suits over a certain mid-level quality).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-28020420688234324332007-12-31T15:51:00.000-08:002007-12-31T15:51:00.000-08:00Jerry Fodor here. Jesse Prinz's empiricism makes m...Jerry Fodor here. Jesse Prinz's empiricism makes me angry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-76575169119094408962007-12-31T15:08:00.000-08:002007-12-31T15:08:00.000-08:00Jesse Prinz here. A friend alerted me to fashioni...Jesse Prinz here. A friend alerted me to fashionista's posting, which was good for a chuckle. I always welcome fashion advice, and I think it's healthy to balance the stress of the Eastern with good round of fashion police. Philosophers make good fodder in this arena because we are less beholden to rigid conventions of dress and, I suppose, less inclined to care. Fashion also interesting questions about psychology (why do we pay attention to dress?), sociology (how is group membership signaled?), and philosophy (what is proper semantics for fashion pronouncements, given that they have an air of objectivity, even though the domain is, by definition, relative?). Putting these issues to one side, I have a question that is more germane to this blog: what do you folks think about the fact that people on the market are expected to dress in a way that significantly departs from what we wear in the classroom?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-45239686623961560632007-12-31T14:15:00.000-08:002007-12-31T14:15:00.000-08:00Regarding changes in philosophical fashion: Leite...Regarding changes in philosophical fashion: Leiter has relinked an old posting where he reports a colleague pointing out, inter alia, "This generation is likely to see creativity and provocativeness as more important than being anal about every little detail, and this goes with publishing more and more flamboyantly rather than publishing little and conservatively. Another interesting generational change: the older generation had a myth of the brilliant loner producing insights out of the blue, whereas the younger generation is more communitarian, focusing more about projects that emerge out of group discussions."<BR/><BR/>Maybe changes in clothing correspond to other changes in the profession: being more flamboyant and social in publishing may go along with a rejection of the old-school homeless look.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-4473706577971828032007-12-31T13:31:00.000-08:002007-12-31T13:31:00.000-08:00Tip to 1:01: Only tools refer to people as "tools....Tip to 1:01: Only tools refer to people as "tools." That is, like--oh my god--totally so 1980s. Sorta like your neon legwarmers. BURN!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-72181256404045699132007-12-31T13:01:00.000-08:002007-12-31T13:01:00.000-08:00Tip to fashionista: I don't know what lingo you're...Tip to fashionista: I don't know what lingo you're hip with, honey, but only tools say "catsup."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-43725165511932652672007-12-31T12:40:00.000-08:002007-12-31T12:40:00.000-08:00Overheard at the Opium Den (probably now defunct) ...Overheard at the Opium Den (probably now defunct) ten years ago:<BR/><BR/>"What's that smell? Is that Mickey Rourke?<BR/><BR/>"Oh no, it's Saul Kripke.<BR/><BR/>"How are you doing, sir? I thought you were Mickey Rourke."<BR/><BR/>(And, once you get over the thrill of being close enough to Kripke to smell him, don't forget to say "sir.")Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-15362105252662739292007-12-31T12:25:00.000-08:002007-12-31T12:25:00.000-08:00Oh, lighten up children. Too much debating about e...Oh, lighten up children. Too much debating about externalism v. internalism and you've forgotten how to recognize satire? (Well, except for Paris Hilton, who clearly got the joke.) <BR/><BR/>Fashion aside, I stand by my conviction that many philosophers are socially retarded, as if they never learned the basics of ordinary social interaction. Good God! Just watch some of us checking into hotels or ordering food or tipping the airport shuttle driver. It's really rather ridiculous. Just because you're a philosopher doesn't mean you are "excused" from observing ordinary social customs, such as excusing yourself when passing gas or brushing your teeth before droning on and on about - oh, I don't know - qualia or whatever. Dress however you like, but for God's sake, TAKE A SHOWER, put on some deodorant, change your fucking shirt if it has catsup stains on it, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-17182045424079316722007-12-31T12:19:00.001-08:002007-12-31T12:19:00.001-08:00TT Asst Prof has clearly never been to Blacksburg....TT Asst Prof has clearly never been to Blacksburg. There's a Banana Republic right next to the philosophy seminar room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-83285528279203781452007-12-31T12:19:00.000-08:002007-12-31T12:19:00.000-08:00"I once saw David K. Lewis at Lincoln Center and, ..."I once saw David K. Lewis at Lincoln Center and, along with Kripke and the like, I suppose he's one of the people who have set "homeless" as the sartorial benchmark of philosophical success. Especially when surrounded by outrageously overdressed opera people, he looked gloriously like one big middle finger.<BR/><BR/>If that's right, we now have a kind of rule for "pretentious"/"pathetic"-discrimination at the APA.<BR/><BR/>So if you see a young guy, obviously in need of employment, walking around in dirty Chucks, dirty jeans, Salvation army sports jacket, and outrageous giraffe pattern tie--he is "pretentious." I mean, how dare he? He hasn't even published yet. He's a nobody!<BR/><BR/>But when you see an obviously senior person, who hasn't been to a philosophy conference in twenty years, having tagged along on a hiring committee, and obviously took great care along the lines of, I don't know, Nordstrom--you know to call her "pathetic.""<BR/><BR/>Awesome. Fucking awesome. Just one of the reasons I love philosophy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-69867551653857432572007-12-31T12:07:00.000-08:002007-12-31T12:07:00.000-08:00First, let's agree that dressing like a dentist or...First, let's agree that dressing like a dentist or a country lawyer just isn't attractive. I kinda got the impression from Fashionista's post that, in her opinion, looking hick-gentry is looking good. And I think we can all agree that it's not. Looking good in Blacksburg, Va. or whatever, just shouldn't count.<BR/><BR/>Second, in my experience, at the APA the best dressed are usually the most desperate; and, as you go up the ladder, the more horrible you look. It always seemed like a status symbol to me. <BR/><BR/>I once saw David K. Lewis at Lincoln Center and, along with Kripke and the like, I suppose he's one of the people who have set "homeless" as the sartorial benchmark of philosophical success. Especially when surrounded by outrageously overdressed opera people, he looked gloriously like one big middle finger.<BR/><BR/>If that's right, we now have a kind of rule for "pretentious"/"pathetic"-discrimination at the APA.<BR/><BR/>So if you see a young guy, obviously in need of employment, walking around in dirty Chucks, dirty jeans, Salvation army sports jacket, and outrageous giraffe pattern tie--he is "pretentious." I mean, how dare he? He hasn't even published yet. He's a nobody!<BR/><BR/>But when you see an obviously senior person, who hasn't been to a philosophy conference in twenty years, having tagged along on a hiring committee, and obviously took great care along the lines of, I don't know, Nordstrom--you know to call her "pathetic." <BR/><BR/>Since I just got my job, so still quite junior, the only sartorial difference is that I no longer wear a tie.<BR/><BR/>I dream of one day having published enough to wear jeans again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-4418515238222329762007-12-31T11:35:00.000-08:002007-12-31T11:35:00.000-08:00Only analytic philosophy. Continental philosophy ...Only analytic philosophy. Continental philosophy tends to have an edge in the "hip" department (whatever its philosophical merits or lack thereof).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-53362625011658360382007-12-31T11:32:00.000-08:002007-12-31T11:32:00.000-08:00On a more pragmatic note, if terrible fashion actu...On a more pragmatic note, if terrible fashion actually bothers you, it might be wise to cut your losses now and get out of philosophy. Otherwise you're in for a lot of pain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-11855568547215222612007-12-31T11:26:00.000-08:002007-12-31T11:26:00.000-08:00Fashionista is a jerk, but I couldn't help snicker...Fashionista is a jerk, but I couldn't help snickering a bit. I guess that makes me an asshole too.<BR/><BR/>I could be wrong, but the "fedora guy" I kept seeing was obviously there for interviews. He had a vintage 1930s sort of look which I actually thought was very cool - very stylish, put together, impeccably dressed. Looked a bit like a younger Clive Owen. (Okay, I'll just admit it - I thought he was hot). <BR/><BR/>I didn't see him wearing the fedora inside unless he also had his overcoat and gloves on and was obviously coming in or going out.<BR/><BR/>I didn't see anyone with blue hair. Lot of folks with a sort of "indie rock" style though. If we're going to talk about fashion (and I don't necessarily think we should, but...), I actually think the younger generation deserves more credit. There was a lot of style and class. I didn't see nearly as many beards as I thought I was going to (and there's nothing wrong with beards on the right face).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-15863567707169768322007-12-31T11:17:00.000-08:002007-12-31T11:17:00.000-08:00I can't believe that some people here don't get Pr...I can't believe that some people here don't get Prinz's blue hair. Talk about a conservative profession!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-22340125500124692352007-12-31T10:47:00.000-08:002007-12-31T10:47:00.000-08:00"Moral superiority and fashion superiority are on ..."Moral superiority and fashion superiority are on a par, no?"<BR/><BR/>TouchéAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-49552491329197864782007-12-31T09:48:00.000-08:002007-12-31T09:48:00.000-08:00In a blog in which insults were actually the point...In a blog in which insults were actually the point, insulting someone for crassness would be appropriate. Moral superiority and fashion superiority are on a par, no?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-82798863168908868532007-12-31T09:47:00.000-08:002007-12-31T09:47:00.000-08:00I didn't know Perez Hilton comments on this blog. ...I didn't know Perez Hilton comments on this blog. That's hot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-1627198884666903442007-12-31T09:36:00.000-08:002007-12-31T09:36:00.000-08:00Anonymous self-righteousness--a new low in bloggin...Anonymous self-righteousness--a new low in blogging? <BR/><BR/>(Yeah I know, anonymous criticism of self-righteousness is just as bad. But can't you find a more appropriate forum to demonstrate your moral superiority than a blog where insults and self-deprecating humor are the whole point?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com