tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post1498446877843798416..comments2023-08-08T00:37:45.098-07:00Comments on A Philosophy Job Market Blog: I'd Like to Shake Your Hand, DisappointmentPseudonymous Grad Studenthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comBlogger53125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-63189020655874128132008-03-09T13:32:00.000-07:002008-03-09T13:32:00.000-07:00The most remarkable thing about Dave Baker is not ...The most remarkable thing about Dave Baker is not that he got three amazing offers, but that he is friends with his advisor. Fuck, man. How did you pull that off?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-23442367608287653682008-03-08T07:48:00.000-08:002008-03-08T07:48:00.000-08:00One of the reasons that the info. about the multip...One of the reasons that the info. about the multiple offers seemed a bit much is that no other Leiter-blog poster included that info., and then all of a sudden there's a guy with lots of fancy offers, and it seems like something is being stuck in our face. But it used to be (a few years ago at least, I can't remember) that most if not all posters would include such information, which in general is very valuable for placement purposes, as many have noted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-64950092755586847722008-03-08T07:13:00.000-08:002008-03-08T07:13:00.000-08:00Point taken, people. Sorry for being a bit heavy-...Point taken, people. Sorry for being a bit heavy-handed.Pseudonymous Grad Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-52945109336459274862008-03-07T16:03:00.000-08:002008-03-07T16:03:00.000-08:00PGS, Weren't most of the people you're asking to l...PGS, <BR/><BR/>Weren't most of the people you're asking to lay off actually supporting Hans' posting the info about Dave Baker?<BR/><BR/>I'll join you: congrats, Dave!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-88046969281240825552008-03-07T15:50:00.000-08:002008-03-07T15:50:00.000-08:00no one's attacking dave...so there's nothing to la...no one's attacking dave...so there's nothing to lay off of. <BR/><BR/>i wrote the original post, because i thought it was funny. stick NYU in the eye - always a good thing, i think. but whether or not that sort of post is actually called for...just doesn't seem practical.<BR/><BR/>congratulations dave. seriously. you are one badass MF. excellent appointment, man. if i caused anyone to humiliate you, my apologies...but i don't think that was anyone's point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-10646659876553775542008-03-07T15:46:00.000-08:002008-03-07T15:46:00.000-08:00look, i posted the original comment about dave. an...look, i posted the original comment about dave. and dave, though you've no idea in hell who i am, please accept my apologies if i've somehow insinuated that you were the gloating type.<BR/><BR/>i found the post funny. thought it was sorta' the "stickin' it to NYU and Wisconsin", which is all in good fun. <BR/><BR/>if folks get hot under the collar about it...get a life. but, pgs, i've noticed no one who was rakin' on dave himself over the post, so i don't understand your call for forebearance. <BR/><BR/>again, dave, congratulations. you are one badass MF. seriously. outstanding appointment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-18398284349928615082008-03-07T11:46:00.000-08:002008-03-07T11:46:00.000-08:00Dave --Congrats!Everyone else --Since it was clear...Dave --<BR/><BR/>Congrats!<BR/><BR/>Everyone else --<BR/><BR/>Since it was clear Dave didn't write the post, maybe we can lay off a little?Pseudonymous Grad Studenthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00627480292942427387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-22969031956114465812008-03-07T09:55:00.000-08:002008-03-07T09:55:00.000-08:00yeah, it does feel gratuitous when some guy lists ...yeah, it does feel gratuitous when some guy lists the jobs he turned down along with the plum he took. especially when some of us don't get any offers at all.<BR/><BR/>but you know what? it isn't.<BR/><BR/>remember that everyone on this blog has been going on at length about how placement information is the most important thing in the world.<BR/><BR/>leiter agrees that placement information is really important.<BR/><BR/>so you know what counts as important placement information that prospective grad students should get to see?<BR/><BR/>they should get to see which schools will not only get you jobs, but will get you your pick of a menu of plum jobs.<BR/><BR/>knowing that is knowing more information than just knowing who wound up taking a job where. <BR/><BR/>if students at department A get five jobs in a year, and students at department B get five jobs in a year, then it is worth knowing that the students at B all got to choose from several options, where the students from A did not.<BR/><BR/>so, look, it stings, yeah, but given that the whole point of the exercise is to get placement information out there and public, it is not gratuitous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-45626282711571228772008-03-07T07:56:00.000-08:002008-03-07T07:56:00.000-08:00My buddy, Anon 5:06, pointed this out to me.The po...My buddy, Anon 5:06, pointed this out to me.<BR/><BR/>The post on Leiterreports is pretty zealous, I agree, but there's a benign explanation. The poster is my advisor, I'm his first student ever, and we're good friends. So he was pretty psyched about the offers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-73337608663308282872008-03-07T06:28:00.000-08:002008-03-07T06:28:00.000-08:00If I'd thought I had a chance at NYU or Wisconsin ...If I'd thought I had a chance at NYU or Wisconsin and had actually applied, I'd be glad to know they were going back to the well once more. That's one advantage of the wiki, and also of Leiter's list. Sure, it's rubbing my face in it, but I can live with that if I get useful information. <BR/><BR/>So everyone, PLEASE keep posting detailed info like that.<BR/><BR/>Don't like the face-rubbing? Stay clear of the comments thread on that posting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-86147108596224476862008-03-07T06:24:00.000-08:002008-03-07T06:24:00.000-08:00"In addition, if folks at the dept. seem friendly ..."In addition, if folks at the dept. seem friendly and supportive, try to get a faculty member (preferably the dept. chair) to sit in on a couple of your classes, and then (if they go well) get a letter from the chair testifying that you're a good teacher and decent colleague."<BR/><BR/>I had a VAP where I didn't get this type of "support", though I did ask for it, and feel rather fucked over as a result. My attitude is that when VAPS are paid less AND teach more than standing faculty, departments should at least have a plan for reviewing their work and writing letters. It's hard when you ask a senior professor to visit you class several times and he says "yes", then won't set a date and never actually does it, to push him on it.<BR/><BR/>I think it's a gap in my CV that I don't have such a letter, and I'm afraid it hurt me on the market this year. Unfortunately, there's nothing to do about it. I hope SCs will be understanding when people coming out of VAPs don't have such letters, recognizing that it may reflect on the department more than the candidate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-44314926596335070212008-03-07T06:07:00.000-08:002008-03-07T06:07:00.000-08:00I agree with Anon 1:27 am. I'm glad someone said i...I agree with Anon 1:27 am. I'm glad someone said it, and it deserves a second. I wouldn't want the point to be mistaken for something trollish.<BR/><BR/>Some of the advice here really has been good and valuable, but a whole lot of it is grain-of-salt kind of thing (mainly as 1:27 says, because it's over-generalization). For instance, some with SC experience have insisted that having a VAP on your CV is a big plus, but others have expressed skepticism. The tepid truth, I expect, is that for some jobs and some SCs, your peak moment is your first year on the market, whereas for others your case gets stronger as your VAP experience grows.<BR/><BR/><BR/>So, job prospectors, ummmmm. Don't take the advice here too seriously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-4896724819942408382008-03-07T05:06:00.000-08:002008-03-07T05:06:00.000-08:00"Now this guy is probably a bad-ass."I know him. ..."Now this guy is probably a bad-ass."<BR/><BR/>I know him. He's seven feet tall and drives a motorcycle, and he couldn't care less about what you think.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-17509297187191387582008-03-07T01:01:00.000-08:002008-03-07T01:01:00.000-08:00Anon 1:52 didn't even comment on the best part of ...Anon 1:52 didn't even comment on the best part of that letter.<BR/><BR/>Although it begins with "Dear Applicant", it continues on to say that "we were very impressed with your application". <BR/><BR/>Does that mean if I had sent them shit in a bag - appropriately formatted, of course - they still would have been impressed? Were they impressed by <I>everyone's</I> application? Or did they send these personalized "Dear Applicant" letters only to their impressive applicants?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-32931495734285589152008-03-06T14:56:00.000-08:002008-03-06T14:56:00.000-08:00That Leiter blog is really starting to move now!That Leiter blog is really starting to move now!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-62860271228801321012008-03-06T14:15:00.000-08:002008-03-06T14:15:00.000-08:00David Baker (Princeton) hired by University of Mic...<I>David Baker (Princeton) hired by University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. AOS: Philosophy of Physics. Also had tenure-track offers from NYU and University of Wisconsin.</I><BR/><BR/>Gratuitous. What the fuck is the point of that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-76899143706999572652008-03-06T13:52:00.000-08:002008-03-06T13:52:00.000-08:00Totally unrelated, but I wanted to share some "roc...Totally unrelated, but I wanted to share some "rocking the passive voice" comments from a PFO I just got:<BR/><BR/>"I regret that we were unable to match your talents with our hiring needs at this time"<BR/><BR/>They were unable to match my talents with their needs. I'm left to wonder if my talents actually matched their needs, but they were unable to connect them somehow. Or was it more of "I'm sorry, we're unable to fit this square peg in the round hole" ?<BR/><BR/>I also like "at this time." Maybe tomorrow we'd be able to make a match, who knows?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-41275994015784650142008-03-06T13:18:00.000-08:002008-03-06T13:18:00.000-08:00From the Leiter postings of job appointments: "Dav...From the Leiter postings of job appointments: <BR/><BR/>"David Baker (Princeton) hired by University of Michigan, Ann Arbor. AOS: Philosophy of Physics. Also had tenure-track offers from NYU and University of Wisconsin"<BR/><BR/>Now this guy is probably a bad-ass. And, quite possibly, even reads this blog. But how pertinent is it to mention the schools he turned down in order to take the job at Michigan? A bit of "rubbing it in NYU's face" or instead a "hey, this is one bad-ass MF we got here"? <BR/><BR/>Here's what mine'll read:<BR/><BR/>"Jack-Ass Dumb-Scmuck accepted post at Sesame Street Community College of the Northeastern New York Ghetto. Rejected by...yeh, pretty much everyone else."<BR/><BR/>***Note: before somebody starts bitching, I ain't picking on the guy who got the job...He didn't post it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-27383579260000656812008-03-06T10:23:00.000-08:002008-03-06T10:23:00.000-08:001:27AM here again.I think the blog is indeed usefu...1:27AM here again.<BR/><BR/>I think the blog is indeed useful for venting and blowing steam and anxiety and whatnot. So people should tell more stories here about stupid things that SCs or colleagues or profs or competitors have done. <BR/><BR/>But the unending stream of advice on the same topics over and over seems increasingly misguided. We cannot predict all this stuff in a general way: you have to consider who you are and what you want (you may not know what you want), as well as what sort of department you are applying to and what they want (they often have no idea what they want even down to the aos and aoc as every new round of hires suggests), as well as all kinds of other factors including how well you are connected to different networks which channel information throughout the profession. There are just too many details, contingencies, and bits of luck for the tone here of fretting in very general terms to be useful.<BR/><BR/>There has to be a better way for this blog to actually contribute something positive to our every-Winter discontent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-16541512959989570792008-03-06T08:54:00.000-08:002008-03-06T08:54:00.000-08:00m.a. program faculty member said...A couple of com...m.a. program faculty member said...<BR/><BR/>A couple of comments about the advantages of VAPing when looking for a TT job:<BR/><BR/>(1) The main advantage, from my point of view as a SC member, isn't that you've been pre-screened by the VAP search committee and found to be (likely) a competent teacher. Instead, it's that you will be coming into your TT job with some experience of teaching multiple sections of different classes, etc. etc., so that you're less likely to make the sorts of rookie mistakes that folks fresh out of grad school often make. Of course, that factor can be easily outweighed by lots of others, but it's there.<BR/><BR/>(2) If you're going into your first VAP, you won't have teaching evals from that place during the job search, but you can still try to beef up your teaching portfolio. Of course, you'll have actual syllabi, and maybe other actual teaching material (handouts, etc.). <BR/><BR/>In addition, if folks at the dept. seem friendly and supportive, try to get a faculty member (preferably the dept. chair) to sit in on a couple of your classes, and then (if they go well) get a letter from the chair testifying that you're a good teacher and decent colleague. Another useful thing is to give out anonymous 'mid-term' course evals to check how things are going. This is a good idea anyway to help make mid-course corrections if need be, but also, if the results are encouraging, you can include them in your portfolio.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-69234151802377223582008-03-06T08:50:00.000-08:002008-03-06T08:50:00.000-08:00Speaking as somebody who, like PGS, is ABD and is ...Speaking as somebody who, like PGS, is ABD and is in the revision stage, but unlike PGS (I think) has one good publication, I have to say that I am completely unable to relate to his disappointment at not landing a TT job out of the Eastern. Maybe I should have done so, but I didn't even bother applying to those jobs this year, because I didn't take myself to have a realistic shot at them without PhD in hand. Had I applied to them, I would have been thrilled to get one, but hardly disappointed if I didn't. I'll consider myself lucky to get a VAP or halfway decent lecturer position this year.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-13667625727971957952008-03-06T08:09:00.000-08:002008-03-06T08:09:00.000-08:00anything beyond the most general advice (publish a...<I>anything beyond the most general advice (publish as much as you can and teach as much as you can, in that order) may not apply in every case.</I><BR/><BR/>Even that may not apply; many programs (esp. in the top portion of Leiter) discourage publishing unless it's your really polished word on the subject, and certainly discourage publishing too much.<BR/><BR/>Overall, I agree with 1:27, so sorry to quibble with something so minor.<BR/><BR/>But I still like this blog. It helps me deal with the anxiety.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-70154750381298139162008-03-06T01:27:00.000-08:002008-03-06T01:27:00.000-08:00The advice on this blog is getting increasingly wo...The advice on this blog is getting increasingly worse. At the level at which most of us work, there is a real amount of complexity for each individual situation. The general advice that people are offering on this blog will be more than misleading for a few people. The range of variables not to mention the staggering contribution of luck would suggest that anything beyond the most general advice (publish as much as you can and teach as much as you can, in that order) may not apply in every case. Candidates (and anonymous advisors, who are probably other candidates) ought to keep this in mind.<BR/><BR/>Those who run this blog and regularly contribute might wish to consider rethinking it's purpose. Venting can be useful but only up to a point. Anonymous advice is not likely to be useful after a certain point.<BR/><BR/>What are some useful topics this blog might be used for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-59094333275806969512008-03-05T17:59:00.000-08:002008-03-05T17:59:00.000-08:00Sorry excuses for advisors. It's a wonder they can...Sorry excuses for advisors. It's a wonder they can even feed themselves.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1944513327283802005.post-77266593739625790282008-03-05T15:18:00.000-08:002008-03-05T15:18:00.000-08:00While teaching experience of any form is good, hav...While teaching experience of any form is good, having a VAP usually counts for more than just adjuncting or teaching while you are a graduate student at your own school.<BR/><BR/>Graduate students are guaranteed teaching, and they get to keep teaching for those guaranteed years even if it is recognized that they aren't very good. <BR/><BR/>While adjuncts don't have that sort of security, they typically hired from a small enough pool and through a casual enough process (no interviews or job-talks etc.) that their teaching isn't scrutinized too carefully.<BR/><BR/>VAP's on the other hand, do tend to have their files vetted more closely, and are often expected to give a sample lecture or at least talk to the department about their teaching.<BR/><BR/>Consequently, just having a VAP will, in most cases, suggest that the candidate can teach competently, while simply adjuncting (unless you've been kept for multiple years at the same place) or teaching a class in grad school won't carry that sort of presumption.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com